la_vie_noire | (no subject)

Willow has some very interesting thoughts about the Twilight phenomenon.

Twilight & Other Creepy Thoughts:

And suddenly Edward Cullen made so much sense as a heart throb. I don't know if Stephanie Myer knew this when she wrote, or if he and that relationship really was more an unconscious product of her upbringing. But Edward Cullen is a boy who

a) does not require a girl give a performance of / have the persona of sexy

b) in having that requirement, thus allowed Bella to feel want and lust and yearning

c) saw nothing wrong with Bella having those desires, but respected/loved her and so wanted to wait (sex was not the end game)

It's startlingly to me to contemplate that Edward / Bella is the romantic story of the century (at least right now contemporarily) because the heroine is aware of, and is allowed to feel her own desire and have her own sexual wants outside of the social act of the new female/feminine performance of pretty and the hero gives a damn about it.

[...]UF, showing women they don't have to give up being sexual beings to have power, and that being a sexual being is about a woman's own desires, not her potential attractiveness to a man.

And I also pretty much like the conversation going on in the comments.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Different aspects of this have been touched on before (that is, understanding the appeal of Twilight from a feminist perspective while still not seeing it as feminist, and having huge objections to it) but I think this is the first time I've seen it touched on from the perspective of Edward as the romantic male. Usually, it kind of boils down to it being about a woman who wants something, is told she can't have it by a man, and then still gets what she wants.

Yeah, I have read those, and yeah, the part I find interesting is Bella not doing the sexy performance, being lustful, and Edward being the one who wants romance and not being "consumed by lust". I haven't read the books, but now that I think about it Bella is supposed to be very clumsy, which may mean something by Meyer. Or maybe not.

*mean something by Meyer about performance.

Also the female gaze thing. With obviously extremely problematic aspects, but well, how many times do you get a female gaze?

I... really don't know. It's an interesting read, yeah, certainly but... to me it comes more as skeevy? Because - at least the way it came to me in the books - it's not about Edward respecting Bella's wishes. It's about he deciding and Bella being too childish/incapable of understanding what she really wants. It's about Edward choosing for Bella.

As I said, IDK :/ I'd be more than happy to have a book - or really, ANYTHING in this media - a la The Sweetest Thing which acknowledges that there's nothing wrong with women having desires, but I really don't think that Twilight is that something.

Hm, well, your reading is your reading certainly. I haven't read the book, but I don't think someone is saying that Twilight is without its deep problems, she was just speculating about the reason of its uber popularity.

Something that it's very pervasive in media is the lack of respect for teenage girls desires (it doesn't happen with teenage boys, see shonen manga).

Again, I haven't read it, but I don't think she is arguing that Bella being portrayed as a sexual being but not a sexual object and instead making Edward the sexual object (and touching lots of teenage girls Ids) overcomes, or even makes less important, the uber-problematic aspects of the books.

*well, maybe she is not exactly saying he is a sexual object, from what I understand Willow is saying Edward is the recipient of Bella's sexual desire and that what he respects is she having that sexual drive. He acts like sex isn't the first thing on his mind and she doesn't have to put that performance of being "sexy" for him.

Oh yes, I understand the part where people argue that he controls her or decides what is good for her.

Again, I haven't read it, and I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth. XP

Arg, LJ hates me.

Meta fandom has sent three ass backwards ignoramuses to my journal. You know what my temper with foolish people is like. This will not end well.

Aaaagh. Sorry for not answering, my health hasn't been any better.

Damn, I was fearing something like that. The one with the "I find this offensive" was.... special. I'm sorry.

Do you want me to remove these posts?

We're cool. We really are. I liked the conversation I was able to engage in coming from you/your flist. It's the random general people, who are showing up because the conversation was phrased differently and want to throw hissy fits that's pushing the doorbell of my Temper.