Man.

[la_vie_noire]

I'm trying to read A Dance With Dragons, and failing hard because I'm not even remembering what happened in the latest book. Heck, not even remembering most minor characters. "The way [insert name of character X] died... wait, did [character X] die? Who was [character X] anyway?"

Do I need to read the books again?

Comments

[onyxlynx]

Probably. (Sometimes one just forgets, particularly that sort of sprawling epic. I'm trying to remember how I kept track of everyone in Lord of the Rings. I may have been better at it when I was younger.)

[la_vie_noire]

Damn, I'm so lazy, I guess I will do the Wiki thing when I forget something! :)

[marina]

Unpopular fannish opinion - no, you absolutely do not need to reread the books. If you REALLY feel like you're missing you just wikipedia the character in question.

[la_vie_noire]

I like this. Because those first pages gave me such a head-ache. My memories of the series were better than this.

[marina]

Martin has so many esoteric and ultimately unimportant minor character, jfc.I mean whatever some of them will pay off in 5 books, whatever, you'll get to that bridge 15 years from now anyway (if at all). If you're really missing out there's always google/wiki, otherwise it's just "blah blah remember how I wrote all those books that one time?"

[thatlitgirl]

Three words: Dunk and Egg. Impossible to track down in Singapore. I get the feeling I am missing out on a lot of back-story, but frankly I am not very interested in the back-story*, and my emotional investment in ASOIAF right now amounts to: ‘Who will sit the Iron Throne, Sansa or Daenerys? Will Asha get to rule to Iron Islands? Can I have an independent Dorne? Where are my amazing ladies‽’ If I could skip right to the ending of A Dream of Spring, I would; but that is what fanfiction is for, in the meantime.**

* And I am also very tired of the increasing levels of woe, angst, and misogynist fridging in the back-stories. [back to text]
** And, if I could, the entirety of ASOIAF would be about Awesome Ladies Plotting Political Stuff, without all that distraction about battles and ice zombies and fire priestesses. Okay, maybe the ice zombies and fire priestesses. [back to text]

[marina]

Yeah, I've had several opportunities to procure Dunk and Egg (it's impossible to get in my country as well, but I've traveled a few times to the US and UK since I first read the books) and I haven't bothered. It's nice backstory, but even since I realized this series would probably never get finished I lost interest in burying myself in the intricacies of the universe (and besides, fandom will inform me of the important things anyway). And then when I realized what few good ideas Martin had to begin with he was completely giving up on - if you still think Asha ruling the Iron Islands, or having any kind of empowering storyline that is not about rape and her brother getting his redemption, is possible well, I certainly envy your optimism! - I lost interest in following his side stories in general. I care about the characters I care about, I theoretically want to see the end of the series and all that, but Martin is not a good enough writer for me to reread his endless volumes every time he puts out another 1000 book where the characters eat sandwiches and talk about the weather and the plot moves nowhere.

[thatlitgirl]

if you still think Asha ruling the Iron Islands, or having any kind of empowering storyline that is not about rape and her brother getting his redemption, is possible well, I certainly envy your optimism!

Fanfiction, Marina, fanfiction!

another 1000 book where the characters eat sandwiches and talk about the weather and the plot moves nowhere.

Give the man some credit; Martin certainly writes about more food than mere sandwiches!

(I wish he would just put out a cookbook. Sometimes it feels like ASOIAF is The Diary Of What I Think Historical Cookery Should Be Like, With A Subplot Wherein There Is Politics And Sex, Neither Of Which Are Done Very Well; But FOOD. He does do food well, mostly, except for “Dorne and Essos and their exotic spicy spice, and occasionally insects and raw hearts”.)

[thatlitgirl]

Actually, hey, can we talk sometime about Spice Is Exotic; Spice Connotes Exoticism! in cuisine? Food: an under-examined aspect of orientalist literature!

[marina]

LOLOL is it underexamined? I find it's the standard thing that goes with the package. Physical appearance -> clothes -> food. Sometimes manners/conduct sneaks in there somewhere, but food is pretty basic in the Welcome to Orientalism sources I've encountered.

[thatlitgirl]

Hm, I think it can be? I’ve never met an Orientalism 101 that went into much depth on the subject of food before, which is a shame because food is the number one cultural thing (at least, in my experience, for Asians).

[marina]

Right, but I don't really need to read Martin's books to enjoy the fanfiction, at this point, and honestly I don't need to read the fanfiction if I find the source a "lost cause" beyond a certain point. I usually don't read fic for canons that I deem awful (well, I do, but it's strictly porn of the "as long as this is going on, I should enjoy the porn byproducts, because that's all this source is good for" variety). It's totally a personal choice/preference, but beyond a certain point of awfulness I feel like the universe is no longer worth my involvement/investment as a fan. Some people find it useful to "fix" things or write the endings canon will never provide, for me if the canon isn't providing I need to not bother with that canon (or, again, relegate it to "for porn only" category).

Basically I have no plans on reading any more of Martin's books until he puts out something I actually find worthy of my time (which will possibly be never).

Haha, about the food, I read the first 4 books circa 2005-2006, so sadly I no longer remember any of the food descriptions. I just remember the eye-bleedingly bad prose of book 1 and my desire Get On With It and read about the stuff I cared about, which were the characters and their shenanigans.

[thatlitgirl]

“This evening they had supped on oxtail soup, summer greens tossed with pecans, grapes, red fennel, and crumbled cheese, hot crab pie, spiced squash, and quails drowned in butter. Each dish had come with its own wine. Lord Janos allowed that he had never eaten half so well.” (ACoK)

“…Jon built a cookfire, claimed a small cask of Mormont’s favorite robust red from stores, and poured it into a kettle. he hung the kettle above the flames wile he gathered the rest of his ingredients. The Old Bear was particular about his hot spiced wine. So much cinnamon and so much nutmeg and so much honey, not a drop more. Raisins and nuts and dried berries, but no lemon, that was the rankest sort of southron heresey – which was queer, since he always took lemon in his morning beer. The drink must be hot to warm a man properly, the Lord Commander insisted, but the the wine must never be allowed to come to a boil…” (ACoK)

“The wedding feast began with a thin leek soup, followed by a salad of green beans, onions, and beets, river pike poached in almond milk, mounds of mashed turnips that were cold before they reached the table, jellied calves’ brains, and a leche of stringy beef.” (ASoS)

“That night her handmaids brought her lamb, with a salad of raisins and carrots soaked in wine, and a hot flaky bread dripping with honey.” (ASoS)

“The kid had been roasted with lemon and honey. With it were grape leaves stuffed with a melange of raisins, onions, mushrooms, and fiery dragon peppers.” (AFfC)

“They began with a broth of crab and monkfish, and cold egg lime soup as well. Then came quails in honey, a saddle of lamb, goose livers drowned in wine, buttered parsnips, and suckling pig. … The serving men brought out a heron stuffed with figs, veal cutlets blanched with almond milk, creamed herring, candied onions…” (ADwD)

George R.R. Martin would be more than welcome at a Chinese wedding dinner. [The Chinese wedding dinner is a cultural phenomenon marked by conspicuous consumption amongst hosts and guests and assorted relatives, chronic and requisite unpunctuality, and copious amounts of tea and/or alcohol. Words alone cannot express what sort of an event it is.]

[la_vie_noire]

Ahahaha. THIS. SO MUCH.

I just started it, and was like, "was this SO bad? What's up with the ridiculous lines about WOE and tragedy, and misogynist manpain?"

Thank. You.

[la_vie_noire]

Wiki, it is. Thank you! XD

[inkstone]

No. Don't reread. http://towerofthehand.com is your friend.

[la_vie_noire]

Aaah, yes! That page! I was about to look for it, thank you! :)

[salinea]

when I loaned the book to my dad, I also gave him links to several different & more or less in depth summary of what has gone before, if you want.

[la_vie_noire]

Oooh, but I think Tower of The Hand is more than enough, right? Thank you anyway!

[dancesontrains]

NGL, I have exactly the same problem with Homestuck. And five acts of that to re-read...

[la_vie_noire]

Ahaha, I have no idea about that fandom, I hope it has some useful wiki. :P

[dancesontrains]

It does! I just somehow didn't think to look at it :P

Homestuck is basically a webcomic, and one of the few things to rival what I've heard of ASOIAF in killing off main characters.